LET'S START SOMETHING!!!

[AZ Rail Rat]

OK,

I think we are all just about aware that the 1.04 "Expansion" is WYSIWYG. So, I'm going to do the HOLY TRINITY (PopTop, Take2 and Gathering) a little FREE market research:

This poll is to see if there is an interest in a CRAZY idea I posted at the "Other Place". Basically, it's making either RRT4 or an off-shoot into a multiplayer game more like a real model railroad club.

Though there are a TON of things to work out, players would work more in a real-time environment performing the many tasks we see in the game: Management, Investment, Track Building, Station Management, Dispatch, Maintenance, etc., not to mention side things like a multitude of economic functions: Agriculture, Light Industry (Meat Packing, Bakery), Heavy Industry (Steel Mills, Auto Plants).

Using graphics and fucntions that already exist, what would it take to turn the simulation (intelligence) of the game over to a group of multiplayers? People could also just log in to "watch" or minor participation like investment, ride from city to city, eat . . . .

Does anyone see what I'm talking about? Would you buy such a game?

Let's hear some ideas.

[speter]

how much have you had to drink tonight? :?

[AZ Rail Rat]

OBVIOUSLY NOT ENOUGH to put me to sleep . . . It's 2:16AM :!: :!: :!:

[hawkdawg]

I'd be tickled if they'd just fix the current mess. :wink:
I'm not really into MP.

[Stoneman]

I would appreciate it if they would fix what they just sent out. In Ireland, for example, they could not decide what the goals were. At one place (briefing), you were supposed to transport loads of two items (wool was one); at another (the book with the year end totals) they were keeping track of something totally different (alcohol was one). Although the map looked cool, I exited--not willing to play a game in which I was not sure what the goals were. Anyone else see this and figure out what the standards really were? :D

[Wolverine@MSU]

The errors on the Ireland map, along with many, many others on other maps were detected during beta testing of the "Thing". For whatever reason they were not fixed before release. Perhaps we should start a thread for each new map, listing problems with each, and when a sufficient number have been identified, someone could correct them and place an updated map on one of the sites hosting user-made maps.

I don't think it's our responsibility to correct PopTop's unprofessional version of CTC, but if we at least begin to enumerate the problems with each map, individuals could correct them on their own computers.

[AZ Rail Rat]

I think we fell into their trap. Rather than fix maps, I think somebody came up with just the idea Wolvey described - LET THE PUBLIC FIX THEIR MESS.

Heck, sell about 20 of us game rights for a dollar each, give us the source code and see what we come up with :!: :!: :!:

[speter]

If I only knew how to code hehe :D

In RT2 I remember people posting map fixes. I thought it was fans who were doing it. The maps ain't hard to fix. :)

[PJay]

I'd love to participate in coding such a game if you'd be happy with RT2-style railways. The RT3 360° style is way too complex for me, I wouldn't know how to code such a thing.

I don't know if I would buy it, such massive online games have most of the costs in maintaining and running a server, so it's usually with monthly/yearly subscriptions.

[kriss]

Rat,
Quite a concept, a real time scenario running on a server somewhere which players could join to take up particular roles. It's conceivable.
I'll be guided by PJay on feasibility but it would certainly capture my interest.

[speter]

In the old days you get paid for such roles, lol :D

Pjay I wouldn't mind a RRT2 style at all, strategy games aren't suppose to have pretty graphics, just average run of the mill. I thought RRT2 graphics were just fine.

[hawkdawg]

Pjay I wouldn't mind a RRT2 style at all, strategy games aren't suppose to have pretty graphics, just average run of the mill. I thought RRT2 graphics were just fine.
I'll have to agree with speter. Although, I like the new graphics, I think RRT2 was a better game, overall.
I miss the option of leaving cars on the train while you pick up new cars, and I still haven't fathomed the industry model in this version.
OK! We've got competition from other delivery sources, but we can't haul freight unless it is profitable :?: But I want to :!: :!:
Uhm! Let me get off this pedestal. :lol:
My vote was for "No. Let them finish what they started.", but now-it's a toss up between the other two choices. :lol: , but the idea is intriguing.

[AZ Rail Rat]

To give it that true CLUB "feel", many (perhaps too many) things about the current game would have to change. Here are a few ideas. Use your imagination as to what change would be required:

Different Multi-Player Concept – This would not be a map four or five people load up, play for a few hours (or until it crashes), and have long-distance beer toasts. Instead it would be a log-in, log-out affair on a perpetual game that might run a week, a month or more for up to 50 or more players. Best thing is, if one player logs out or worse crashes, the server AI automatically takes over for that person and the game goes on.

Each player could join, be hired or appointed, buy into, or get voted into an aspect of the game. The HOST starts things out and is President of the first company. The HOST selects how long a game should run for, i.e 24 hours, a weekend (Friday afternoon until Sunday night), a week, a month (max).

HOST also selects game period like 1830 to 1900, or 1830 to 2010. This establishes the game running clock. For example, a game running from 1830 to 2010 (180 years) would run at one year every 4 hours for 30 days. There would also be provisions where host could limit play time, i.e. if the majority of players were in Europe, they might vote to allow play from 6:00 am to midnight GMT. Game would calculate clock accordingly.

AIs run things until other players JOIN or request to be ELECTED into office. More ideas are listed in groups below. JOIN players would jump in immediately and AI control would turn over to them. If a player wishes to be a HIRED or APPOINTED player, he or she would have to request from the player controlling that group.

ELECTED players would have to sign up for office before September each year for an election the following November. They would hold that office until either resigning, being voted out, or impeached. If an office holder logs out, then logs back on several hours or days later, and no other player has vied for the office, they are reinstated without an election.

Groups - Game routines would have to be divided into several categories, each with a unique GUI loading data into existing or new databases. The five major groups are:

1 - Railroad Ownership
2 - Operations
3 - Government (and banking)
4 - Industry
5 - The Public

Subgroups of each:

Owners (1 to 7 players per company)
Company President (1 HOST or ELECTED player - runs the show, but more “management” oriented dealing with other players)
The Board of Directors (yes – a REAL board – 1 to 4 ELECTED or BUY IN players, usually investors, roles still a bit foggy)
Survey (1 JOIN or HIRED player surveys routes – remember that?)
Construction Supervisor (1 JOIN or HIRED player builds track, bridges and tunnels per the survey and materials transported to job site)

Operations (1 to 10 players per company):
Manager (1 JOIN or HIRED player – Yep, bring them back - receives orders, requests trains from the yard and routes them)
Yard (1 JOIN or HIRED player responsible for train building and maintenance, emergency repairs and track maintenance) Example – Trains that break down are not “magically” fixed. This guy would have to take a handcar or service loco with crew to the breakdown or wreck, fix things or clear the track.
Train Crews (1 JOIN or HIRED player per 10 trains - engineers, conductors, brakemen – they run the trains, must obey SIGNALS – remember them? and handles track switching as routes could be NOT automatic city to city)

The Government (1 to 24 players per map)
A President, Prime Minister, Emperor or Dictator (1 ELECTED player declares war or makes the peace, settles labor disputes, Governor impeachments; appoints Banker, military generals and Postmasters)
Banker/Stock Market (1 JOIN or APPOINTED player loans money, sets interest rates, influences stock prices)
The Military (1 JOIN or APPOINTED player in charge of barracks, military depots, etc. – requests troop movements, ammo, weapons)
Postmaster General (1 JOIN or APPOINTED player builds Post Offices and dispatches the mail)
Region Governors (1 ELECTED player per region, 5 max, runs their region like negotiating for industries to be built, sets taxes, calls for Mayoral elections/impeachments)
City Mayors (3 ELECTED players per region; cities equally divided, builds their cities by purchasing raw materials like lumber, steel, cement – remember cement? – and requesting industries be built)

Industry (1 to 6 players per map – 1 each)
Agriculture (builds and runs all farms, negotiates prices)
Minerals (digs and runs all mines, negotiates prices)
Food (runs taverns, restaurants, bakeries – remember when you could own one? – meat packers, dairy processors)
Light Industry (furniture, toys, retail, cinema)
Medium Industry (booze, commercial buildings, sports stadiums)
Heavy Industry (steel mills, auto plants, weapons, munitions)

The Public (0 to x players per map controlled by bandwidth of server)
Mostly a catch group for observers and silent investors, but could get elaborate:
Passengers (families, business people, “tour groups”, sports teams, etc. between cities)
Realtors (negotiate land prices, right-of-ways, etc.) – Might belong in a different group.
Boat Captains/Cart Drivers (handle alternate transportation?)

Biggest thing to figure out is the bloodletting (scoring). If two or three companies are on a single map, scoring becomes obvious. There could also be SANDBOX games where it’s one company shooting to conquer the map, or just build and ride for fun.

Enough dreaming - - - Be aware, this game concept as described is now Copyright, AZ Rail Rat. All rights reserved.

[kriss]

AZ you obviously don't need much sleep :lol:
I support the concept for sure & I'm certain it's feasible.
Scoring. The game play you envisage doesn't lend itself to the outright winner concept, so some sort of points for achievement in the various jobs scale might be the way to go. If I can only get a job as a grease monkey I will still want a goal to aim for. (Maybe servicing your limo fleet)

[PJay]

AZ, that sounds good, I just don't like the idea of 1 player controlling all farms, 1 controlling all mines, etc...

Give us a free market on the industry side too !

[AZ Rail Rat]

PJay,

I had it that way thinking of possible bandwidth issues. Since I'm not an Internet gamer, I don't know such things. However, it seems to be something to do with data flow. I would not think data flow in from any one player would be very much, but output to everyone might be a problem.

The world is wide open for scoring Kriss. My initial concept is that the map is pretty bare as far as the economy goes. Every city would be nothing more than a signpost, no houses, industry, nothing, just like the pioneer days of old.

Each player would be given a grubstake as they joined a virgin map. The HOST would have the typical million to start his railroad. The next level would be the government, President, Banker, Governors, Mayors. They would have maybe $100K each. Since there would be up to 5 regions with 3 cities each, that's 20 so plus the other two, government players have $2.2M to initially invest in railroads, cities or industry or just keep as spending cash.

Actually, not all government player funds are their own. They would have to use it to build City Halls, Governor's Mansions, the White House (or Dictator's palace), Banks and the Military. There are some new buildings for you PJay!

Each level of player down the line would have the same. The heavy industry mogul would get $100K like the government, Medium $75K, Light $50K. This would project down to the farmers who would have not much more than the shirt on their backs, a couple of horses and a cow. They would have to find a spot on the game to homestead the first few years and make enough to feed themselves until their farms produce enough to sell. The "public" would not have money coming in, but would have "endless" credit to travel.

All players (except farmers) and the public would have to choose what city to live in. Mayors would have to build houses and the other city economy pieces accordingly. This is also the great opportunity to get rid of the ONE-BUILDING-STYLE-FITS-ALL crap. A true historic map would need log cabins at first, then as lumber and steel mills appear, buildings could become more modern.

The stock market could have Mutual Funds that calculate the "Fortune 50", or top 50 railroads and industries. Players could invest individually or in the mutual fund. That, along with a monthly salary (except farmers) provides cash flow for each player to build PNW. Scoring goals could be anything from highest office held, PNW, stock, etc. to miles traveled riding the rails. Of course, if it built up to two or three railroad companies, there is your scoring right there - WIPE EACH OTHER OUT!!!

Remember though, a CLUB environment is not so much for competition as it is just the fun and joy of building something and watching it run. Why does everything have to be so competitive?

Each city, region and the entire map would levy taxes to pay government salaries. Just like the real world, money is generated by raping the land of resources and moving those resources.

All these things would be in AI until players took over. For say, the first five years, players could join and get their full grubstake. After that, they would have to take whatever the AI has made for itself. If AIs don't get any smarter, it would not be too wise to join the game late as they might already spend all their worth. :P :P :P :P :P

© 2004 AZ Rail Rat

[kriss]

There are some guys frequenting the GOD forum who might be worth consulting on this Gary. The Dragon * is one, may be worth PM'ing any you think could contribute. Perhaps get them over here.
I think PJay is talking to some on Pk4 etc files.